Comments on: Coping With Clients Who Use Your Concept Design — Without Paying http://designorati.com/articles/t1/graphic-design/654/coping-with-clients-who-use-your-concept-design-without-paying.php A 360-Degree View of the Creative World Thu, 09 Feb 2012 02:54:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.5 By: Kimberly http://designorati.com/articles/t1/graphic-design/654/coping-with-clients-who-use-your-concept-design-without-paying.php/comment-page-1#comment-230609 Kimberly Tue, 13 Jul 2010 01:44:41 +0000 http://designorati.com/?p=654#comment-230609 Oops ... relevant. :) Oops … relevant. :)

]]> By: Kimberly http://designorati.com/articles/t1/graphic-design/654/coping-with-clients-who-use-your-concept-design-without-paying.php/comment-page-1#comment-230606 Kimberly Tue, 13 Jul 2010 01:37:26 +0000 http://designorati.com/?p=654#comment-230606 Thank you, Pariah. Your article is just as fresh and relavent today. I came across another site that tells legal rights: http://aigasf.org/community/articles/do_you_have_to_give_your_freelance_client_your_digital_files And this one: 10 reasons why spec hurts -- http://www.thedenveregotist.com/editorial/2008/august/7/ten-reasons-spec-hurts-everyone Thank you, Pariah. Your article is just as fresh and relavent today.

I came across another site that tells legal rights:
http://aigasf.org/co...t_your_digital_files

And this one:
10 reasons why spec hurts –
http://www.thedenver...-spec-hurts-everyone

]]> By: Diana http://designorati.com/articles/t1/graphic-design/654/coping-with-clients-who-use-your-concept-design-without-paying.php/comment-page-1#comment-111598 Diana Mon, 05 May 2008 10:10:03 +0000 http://designorati.com/?p=654#comment-111598 I have done no spec for 3 years. I have had no work for 3 years. I have shaken my fist in frustration as clients tell me I need to give them spec for 3 years. I have been searching for a good client now for 3 years. I have seen every client I find, wander off and find another cheaper designer. I have turned down jobs promised on spec for 3 years. I have done 2 Pro Bono projects in 3 years. I have been labeled as the 'aloof' designer for 3 years. I have begged for 3 years. I have stood in soup line and gotten to know some crazy people for 3 years. I have prayed for an internship for 3 years. I have looked for the generic in house design job for 3 years. I have lost hope over 3 years. I wonder at my sanity these past 3 years. I spent 7 years in good Design schools, and I take bull all the time about being either underqualified, or overqualified for the work. The last potential client I spoke too said I was 'too professional' for him. You talk about being a professional, how about you tell a starter-professional how to get a job being a no spec artist? Answer: It doesn't happen. It never happens! The reason why it never happens is because no matter how fancy-dancy great your portfolio is everyone wants to see you put forward effort on spec. They see your unwillingness to do spec on request as a serious lack of commitment to be a designer. This is because spec has taken over the heart of the profession and is now a standard requisite. I have done no spec for 3 years.
I have had no work for 3 years.
I have shaken my fist in frustration as clients tell me I need to give them spec for 3 years.
I have been searching for a good client now for 3 years.
I have seen every client I find, wander off and find another cheaper designer.
I have turned down jobs promised on spec for 3 years.
I have done 2 Pro Bono projects in 3 years.
I have been labeled as the ‘aloof’ designer for 3 years.
I have begged for 3 years.
I have stood in soup line and gotten to know some crazy people for 3 years.
I have prayed for an internship for 3 years.
I have looked for the generic in house design job for 3 years.
I have lost hope over 3 years.
I wonder at my sanity these past 3 years.

I spent 7 years in good Design schools, and I take bull all the time about being either underqualified, or overqualified for the work. The last potential client I spoke too said I was ‘too professional’ for him.

You talk about being a professional, how about you tell a starter-professional how to get a job being a no spec artist?

Answer: It doesn’t happen. It never happens!

The reason why it never happens is because no matter how fancy-dancy great your portfolio is everyone wants to see you put forward effort on spec. They see your unwillingness to do spec on request as a serious lack of commitment to be a designer.

This is because spec has taken over the heart of the profession and is now a standard requisite.

]]> By: Jane http://designorati.com/articles/t1/graphic-design/654/coping-with-clients-who-use-your-concept-design-without-paying.php/comment-page-1#comment-32685 Jane Mon, 08 Jan 2007 01:30:58 +0000 http://designorati.com/?p=654#comment-32685 Wendy, I know it's been a while since you posted your message, and I hope that things have been sorted out re your designs. I was under the impression that you didn't have to copyright your creations to protect ownership - copyright is automatically created for anything that is written, sung, recorded, etc. - that is definitely the case in Australia. You can add a copyright symbol to remind people, but it's not necessary. Wendy, I know it’s been a while since you posted your message, and I hope that things have been sorted out re your designs.
I was under the impression that you didn’t have to copyright your creations to protect ownership – copyright is automatically created for anything that is written, sung, recorded, etc. – that is definitely the case in Australia. You can add a copyright symbol to remind people, but it’s not necessary.

]]> By: stevesda uk http://designorati.com/articles/t1/graphic-design/654/coping-with-clients-who-use-your-concept-design-without-paying.php/comment-page-1#comment-31805 stevesda uk Fri, 05 Jan 2007 15:07:18 +0000 http://designorati.com/?p=654#comment-31805 I know its nigh on impossible to say no to spec, but if you're confident in your ability then have a go. Blair Enns, a speaker in sales guidance ran a course of seminars in the uk last year which were really interesting and relevant to the cse above. You can read more about it at: http://www.winwithoutpitching.com In truth, there will always be those pitches you go for that you just cant turn down, but make sure ou protect your design in anyway possible. Thi website provides lots of relevant information and advice for such issues: http://www.acid.uk.com/ I know its nigh on impossible to say no to spec, but if you’re confident in your ability then have a go.

Blair Enns, a speaker in sales guidance ran a course of seminars in the uk last year which were really interesting and relevant to the cse above. You can read more about it at:

http://www.winwithoutpitching.com

In truth, there will always be those pitches you go for that you just cant turn down, but make sure ou protect your design in anyway possible. Thi website provides lots of relevant information and advice for such issues:

http://www.acid.uk.com/

]]> By: Shames Me to Say http://designorati.com/articles/t1/graphic-design/654/coping-with-clients-who-use-your-concept-design-without-paying.php/comment-page-1#comment-19444 Shames Me to Say Sun, 10 Dec 2006 09:44:52 +0000 http://designorati.com/?p=654#comment-19444 Well I just have to say that I have worked as an in-house designer in corporate America and I was that intern or working professional who was given another designers work and asked to vomit on it. Let me tell you it pained me thru the whole process and I think everyone looses in that situation. The original designer... for obvious reasons. The Client ( Sales Weenie or Kiss Ass Marketeer ) with a good design gone bad because they change the tag line with something that wont match the image or the layout. And last of all the young new designer fresh out of school hoping to get creative control of a nation wide ad campaign only to have a design handed to him and spit out later. Both designers in this scenario walk away without any thing to show... who is going to claim that in their portfolio? After seeing the client end of the biz and now being a devoted freelancer my self I protect my ass when it comes to new clients. Ohh and I would like to take this time to apologize to the designer who's work I butchered... in my defense, I did fight the idea all the way to the print. Well I just have to say that I have worked as an in-house designer in corporate America and I was that intern or working professional who was given another designers work and asked to vomit on it. Let me tell you it pained me thru the whole process and I think everyone looses in that situation. The original designer… for obvious reasons. The Client ( Sales Weenie or Kiss Ass Marketeer ) with a good design gone bad because they change the tag line with something that wont match the image or the layout. And last of all the young new designer fresh out of school hoping to get creative control of a nation wide ad campaign only to have a design handed to him and spit out later. Both designers in this scenario walk away without any thing to show… who is going to claim that in their portfolio? After seeing the client end of the biz and now being a devoted freelancer my self I protect my ass when it comes to new clients.
Ohh and I would like to take this time to apologize to the designer who’s work I butchered… in my defense, I did fight the idea all the way to the print.

]]> By: Wendy in MT http://designorati.com/articles/t1/graphic-design/654/coping-with-clients-who-use-your-concept-design-without-paying.php/comment-page-1#comment-5639 Wendy in MT Fri, 01 Sep 2006 17:13:29 +0000 http://designorati.com/?p=654#comment-5639 Pariah - just read this article and it's informative - I'm wondering if your solution can help me resolve my unique (albiet, ultimately ignorant) situation: The short of the long - I designed 5 beer labels for a brewery (a friend of a friend) - didn't pay me for the last one (filed in small claims, geeez!) but recently found out that some HACK at the brewery (fascinated with Photoshop Elements!) has been cutting and pasting my labels to create new ones (3 rip offs are floating out there) - ok, beat me now, I didn't copyright (I know, I know) but who owns it? They paid for the first 4 labels - they own the labels but who owns the design elements? I've consulted a patent lawyer and my 'free' consultation is used to determine if there is a conflict of interest - so then I pay $190/HOUR to find out if I have a case. Besides wanting to get some kind of $ for what was stolen, I WANT THEM TO STOP RIPPING ME OFF. In addition, the HACK'S version is close enough to mine that the general public will think that is my work and that I just got sloppy or lazy (great for the ole portfolio!) I've been to copyright.gov and read until my eyes bleed but can't find anything about 'what happens if you don't copyright?' - I feel like this is blatant because he requested 5, paid for 4 and THEN started stealing. Don't really know where to go from here..... Pariah – just read this article and it’s informative – I’m wondering if your solution can help me resolve my unique (albiet, ultimately ignorant) situation:

The short of the long – I designed 5 beer labels for a brewery (a friend of a friend) – didn’t pay me for the last one (filed in small claims, geeez!) but recently found out that some HACK at the brewery (fascinated with Photoshop Elements!) has been cutting and pasting my labels to create new ones (3 rip offs are floating out there) – ok, beat me now, I didn’t copyright (I know, I know) but who owns it? They paid for the first 4 labels – they own the labels but who owns the design elements? I’ve consulted a patent lawyer and my ‘free’ consultation is used to determine if there is a conflict of interest – so then I pay $190/HOUR to find out if I have a case. Besides wanting to get some kind of $ for what was stolen, I WANT THEM TO STOP RIPPING ME OFF. In addition, the HACK’S version is close enough to mine that the general public will think that is my work and that I just got sloppy or lazy (great for the ole portfolio!)

I’ve been to copyright.gov and read until my eyes bleed but can’t find anything about ‘what happens if you don’t copyright?’ – I feel like this is blatant because he requested 5, paid for 4 and THEN started stealing.

Don’t really know where to go from here…..

]]> By: Pariah S. Burke http://designorati.com/articles/t1/graphic-design/654/coping-with-clients-who-use-your-concept-design-without-paying.php/comment-page-1#comment-1306 Pariah S. Burke Tue, 09 May 2006 23:11:59 +0000 http://designorati.com/?p=654#comment-1306 Three cheers for you, Viki! You did <em>exactly</em> the right thing by checking up on the client, then by sending him the warning. Bravo! Three cheers for you, Viki! You did exactly the right thing by checking up on the client, then by sending him the warning. Bravo!

]]> By: Viki Anderson http://designorati.com/articles/t1/graphic-design/654/coping-with-clients-who-use-your-concept-design-without-paying.php/comment-page-1#comment-1298 Viki Anderson Tue, 09 May 2006 03:33:28 +0000 http://designorati.com/?p=654#comment-1298 Wow! this exact scenario happened to me in 2003. After sending the client my ideas for his site, he backed out a week later telling me that he is just not ready to put a site up yet...but the way he hedged, I had the feeling that he was not completely honest with me. A month later, I checked the address that he was going to use to see if he actually did not yet build a site (my gut was telling me otherwise) and sure enough, there it was. My ideas, down to the colors and a recreated similar flash animation. I contacted the client, informed him that he was infringing on my copyrighted design ideas and told him that under the circumstances, I would be billing him for my ideas and time. He could either pay me or take the site down. I let him know that what he did was considered theft and that I would pursue every legal course for restitution. He took the site down immediately. Wow! this exact scenario happened to me in 2003. After sending the client my ideas for his site, he backed out a week later telling me that he is just not ready to put a site up yet…but the way he hedged, I had the feeling that he was not completely honest with me. A month later, I checked the address that he was going to use to see if he actually did not yet build a site (my gut was telling me otherwise) and sure enough, there it was. My ideas, down to the colors and a recreated similar flash animation.

I contacted the client, informed him that he was infringing on my copyrighted design ideas and told him that under the circumstances, I would be billing him for my ideas and time. He could either pay me or take the site down.

I let him know that what he did was considered theft and that I would pursue every legal course for restitution.

He took the site down immediately.

]]> By: Rich http://designorati.com/articles/t1/graphic-design/654/coping-with-clients-who-use-your-concept-design-without-paying.php/comment-page-1#comment-938 Rich Wed, 12 Apr 2006 03:12:03 +0000 http://designorati.com/?p=654#comment-938 Bravo. I hope more and more designers start realizing the power of thier craft and stop making clients feel comfortable getting speculative work before execution. It's one thing to have your boss ask you to do many revisions of one thing, but entirely another to try to impress a client with a custom, pretty design (that's probably meaningless anyway - since a client's services are often much deeper than a spec design). It's much more important to get into the organization, become immersed in it and just do some mind blowing design work for them. It's the way agencies do it - it should be the way freelancers do it, too. Even if you're starting out and the tantalizing prospect of working for some startup - get your foot in the door based on your interview prowess and your wonderful work (even if it is just vanity work). Thanks for the great, empowering article! Bravo. I hope more and more designers start realizing the power of thier craft and stop making clients feel comfortable getting speculative work before execution. It’s one thing to have your boss ask you to do many revisions of one thing, but entirely another to try to impress a client with a custom, pretty design (that’s probably meaningless anyway – since a client’s services are often much deeper than a spec design). It’s much more important to get into the organization, become immersed in it and just do some mind blowing design work for them. It’s the way agencies do it – it should be the way freelancers do it, too. Even if you’re starting out and the tantalizing prospect of working for some startup – get your foot in the door based on your interview prowess and your wonderful work (even if it is just vanity work). Thanks for the great, empowering article!

]]> By: Pariah S. Burke http://designorati.com/articles/t1/graphic-design/654/coping-with-clients-who-use-your-concept-design-without-paying.php/comment-page-1#comment-796 Pariah S. Burke Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:47:44 +0000 http://designorati.com/?p=654#comment-796 Thanks, JDennis. Thanks, JDennis.

]]> By: JDennis http://designorati.com/articles/t1/graphic-design/654/coping-with-clients-who-use-your-concept-design-without-paying.php/comment-page-1#comment-791 JDennis Tue, 07 Mar 2006 01:36:03 +0000 http://designorati.com/?p=654#comment-791 You just hit a very tender spot right there. I was a victim of such client when I decided to agree on designing on spec. Your article is very informative and a wake up call to freelance designers like I used to be. Keep it up and more power! JDennis You just hit a very tender spot right there. I was a victim of such client when I decided to agree on designing on spec. Your article is very informative and a wake up call to freelance designers like I used to be. Keep it up and more power!

JDennis

]]> By: Lucian Slatineanu http://designorati.com/articles/t1/graphic-design/654/coping-with-clients-who-use-your-concept-design-without-paying.php/comment-page-1#comment-725 Lucian Slatineanu Thu, 16 Feb 2006 15:21:18 +0000 http://designorati.com/?p=654#comment-725 Nice article and I agree that you can't stress enough the importance of <strong>not doing speculative work</strong>. For a summary explanation you can give your potential client, you can see <a href="http://www.creativelatitude.com/articles/articles_cb_spec.html" rel="nofollow">this article</a>. Another good way for a starting freelancer to build his/her web portfolio would be to make a design for the <a href="http://www.csszengarden.com/" rel="nofollow">CSSZenGarden</a>. It's highly visited and a good design there will definitely attract a good number of customers. Nice article and I agree that you can’t stress enough the importance of not doing speculative work. For a summary explanation you can give your potential client, you can see this article.

Another good way for a starting freelancer to build his/her web portfolio would be to make a design for the CSSZenGarden. It’s highly visited and a good design there will definitely attract a good number of customers.

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